Connect before you correct

How non-violent communication can bring an end to the conflict -- no really. Nadia Mahmour Giol and Anat Asia are a living example.

This was one of my favorite episodes of Women Ending War (so far!). The interviewees, Nadia Mahmoud Giol and Anat Asia, a Palestinian Israeli and Jewish Israeli from the Galilee respectively, have been partnering for over ten years in activating peace through non-violent communication. They talk about the importance of language, listening, and learning to step out of your own identity needs into humanity needs. Their insights offer powerful wisdom, good ideas, and a lot of hope.

Have a listen and judge for yourselve. (Transcript below and captions on the Youtube link).Would love to hear your thoughts.

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Transcript:

This is Women Ending War, the podcast where you'll discover that there is another path, that peace is possible, and that the women here can lead the way.

I'm Dr. Elana Sztokman, I'm here with Eva Dalak my cohost . Welcome.

Elana: Salam Aleikum

Eva: Shalom Aleichem

Elana: How are you Eva?

Eva: I'm good how are you?

Elana: Good. Thank God.

Eva: Interesting conversations. I'm looking forward to this one today.

Elana: Yeah, me too. Today we're going to be talking about non-violent communication. And I just want to say that when we started to plan this podcast, and we're talking about the need to have different perspectives, and to have women involved in decision-making to create a different future here, to create a future that is not conflict and war but that's people coexisting and living together in shared society, there are two ways to approach that, what Professor Ronit Levine-Schnur called the "sandwich approach". That is, you can look at it from top down or from bottom up. So top down basically says that we need women in powerful positions around the table who have expertise and knowledge in things like geopolitics, and strategy, and also conflict resolution and diplomacy and all those things. But Also there's a need for a bottom-up approach because peace happens, as Eva has said many times already, that peace happens from within. Peace happens in people. And it's not just what governments impose but also what people are doing with each other on the human level. Am I getting that right, Eva?

Eva: Yeah, and to create a link between the grassroots and the decision-maker. I think the disconnect right now is exactly there. That's why when the professor said she was going to resign, we said, "No you need to stay at the table!" It's So I do think, as I mentioned at the beginning of our journey in this podcast, it's not enough to just bring women to the table. We need them to speak their relevance for the people on the ground as well as being heard, being followed, and implementing their strategies. And so it's not an either-or approach. It's not this or that. I really believe in both/and. And I'm excited to hear your perspective on that.

Elana: So today we have two wonderful guests. I'm really excited. We have Anat Asia and Nadia Mahmoud Giol who are partners in founding Insun which is about dialogue. Both are nonviolent communication facilitators, Nadia is a non-violent communication internationally certified trainer and facilitator. And Anat is a facilitator. And you've been working together for ten years plus -- more than ten years. Okay, so Nadia, tell us a little bit about what you do.

Nadia: I think what we are doing and what we are bringing is tools to support people in how they can connect with themselves and to bring more ease so they can connect with other people. And this is the place to create environment where we create a space where we can have easily more connection with ourselves and with others. And to give space for everyone. This is the basic intention of the tool that we are bringing.

Elana: What do you in Insan? What is the work that you're doing in practice?

Nadia: Let's say I will talk about what we are doing lately, since last October. We initiate for example a zoom call. We call it "empathy space" that Anat and me do every week -- one time for women, one time for men and women, one time for the team itself. And we create a space where we can talk about what is alive in us in regard to what we are living in this hard time. And we are as the facilitators, we give empathy, and we support people how to express their pain and anger and at the same time to connect with others so they can be able to listen to their pain and to connect with them on a personal level far away from prejudice and political issues. Because in the end we are human beings living with the same feelings and the same needs regardless of our origin or our religion. Today we are a team of Palestinians, Israelis and internationals running this initiative together in three languages. And also to create a space where there are live three languages spoken at the same time without technical translation -- this itself is a huge and big challenge. To bring more than 60, between 60 and 100 people from all around the world to connect, I think this action itself shows how much this tool is really helpful.

Elana: That is very complicated, doing it in three languages. I mean, language is very complicated in this conflict also. Even here, I just want to say, when we decided to do this in English, that was a complicated decision. I made the decision for two reasons. One, English is my native language, but also is feels like English is the neutral language here. But on the other hand it has its own hierarchy because not everyone speaks English, actually, and it limits the conversation to people who are able to speak English, and that's also limiting and exclusionary in its own way. So I can only imagine how complicated that must be -- you want to have three languages, you want to be inclusive. What's that like? How do you manage it?

Nadia: I think the fact that we believe that language is part of our identity, and sometimes -- mostly -- to express our feelings and needs, it is most easiest to do in my mother language. I think from my experience in the field together, the multicultural community, it's a lot of fears. We are doing that. How important it is to bring the tools of the native language, that people can express their feelings in their native language. We do it in live translation. In the team we are Arabic, Hebrew, and English, and me most of the time, I am working as a translator and facilitator and trainer at the same time. And also we have now more Arab speakers that support. We have Anat, and we have two other Israelis who are supporting us and also three or four international non-violence communication trainers who are supporting us. And every phrase that's spoken there is translated to three languages at the same time.

Elana: That's a lot of work. But wow it's so important. It's so important because there is really, when you're not functioning in your native language, it's definitely disempowering. Like, you're not 100% -- also you're not 100% at your best. I know that, I said this actually recently that I've been living for 30 years not in my native language, I live in Israel and I function in my daily life in Hebrew, and I know that I can't do in Hebrew what I can do in English. I mean, my Hebrew is good, you know, I did a doctorate and two master's degrees in Hebrew. But I always feel like I'm never 100% myself when I'm not in my native language.

Eva: Also your emotional language. Also because this conflict is all about emotions, and so bringing in the element of the Mother Tongue, and like remembering your emotional body and connecting to your emotional body is really important to be expressed. And Anat you mentioned earlier that you're also a holistic healer therapist, I'd love to hear more about that and how it influences how you both speak. Because I'm sure that's also part of the grounding practices.

Anat: So Nadia and me have two common backgrounds. Both of us came from education about the environment, and both of us are healers. So when we started to practice and teach NVC, non-violent communication, we knew that these two things are common for us. And also both of us are mothers. And our first meeting about teaching together was in one of the wars that was here. I don't remember -- all the time we have a war here

Nadia:2014.

Anat: And we cried together about the situation and we were really worried about the future of our children. So i think that these three things are really adding a lot of inner power for our work.

The tool that we are using is NVC, non-violent communication. And talking stick like the Indians, we use this method -- also other methods that we learned over the years. But I think all the time the fact that we are healers is really helping. And the fact that we remember the environment, not only the human beings work but also the planet, I think it makes a common ground that if we remember this common ground, we will want more peace.

Eva: Absolutely

Elana: You both come from environmental backgrounds.

Eva: That's what I find interesting. And Healing. Healing, environment, and NVC, and I think the interconnection between the three fields is very important. Because so often we work in conflict transformation field, conflict resolution, and we work on the common ground between the people, both people, and there's two sides, homogeneous sides, and it's not true. And then we disconnect from the environment. And I feel like bringing the environment in, bringing the land as part of this relationship and finding the common ground for both people towards the land, the land is screaming for "Enough of this, enough of this violence. I want peace I want peace." The environment is screaming "I want peace." And so there's a resonance so that even if the Palestinians can't hear it from the Israelis or the Israelis can't hear it from the Palestinians, they can hear it from the land. And that's really crucial.

And then hearing it from the inner -- i really loved your name, the connection between "Insan" and "inner sun". "Insan" in Arabic means humanity, and "inner sun" is like the sun within us. And it's like really about the solar plexus, which is like the "I am" in the world. And that's, I feel like that's what you're bringing in with the interconnection between NVC, environment, and healing therapy. Thank you for that.

Anat: And the fact that we are women, and mothers.

Eva: Exactly! And that's the other --

Anat: Both of us lead over these years many groups that sometimes there with men, some only with women, some with children, different ages, of people.   

And the fact that we are two leaders, women, sometimes leading groups where there are men also there it also makes some change. Because the men have their way to talk, to think, to behave, and the women have a little different way.

Elana: Like how? What are the differences that you see?

Anat: Like for example, now, in the international talks that we do via Zoom, we see that there is a difference between the meetings of women only and women and men. Sometimes it's, most of the time with the women, there is a lot more empathy in the air. Even if we talk about very hard things, for example, a woman from Gaza, a mother of four children, really suffering, and she comes again and again to our talks. And Israeli mothers that have to send their children to the army, but they are peacemakers, and there is a suffering from that, even it's two sides of the same coin, but the women have more capacity -- most of the time, not always -- to give each one empathy, to listen, to understand the situation of the other. And sometimes we see it's a little more difficult with men. Sometimes. But I don't want to say all the men. IN our team, we are also ten women and one man. And he's really wants to listen and open his heart. He's Canadian, his name is Luke.

Our team is a wonderful team. We have a Druze facilitators. Her name is Rafa. And Raifa, she is Muslim Palestinian. Mirit and Reva. And Roberta -- really amazing, Roberta Wall, really amazing experience with this team.

Elana: Roberta Wall is one of the leaders. I've been to a couple of her programs. And you two --

Nadia: She is one of our teachers.

Elana: She's one of your teachers. Of course.

Anat: And Eli. And of course Amal Hadwe, a Palestinian who lives in the occupied territories

Nadia: Beit Jalla

Anat: She's also an NVC trainer-facilitators. She's one of our team. And it's very amazing to work with all our team.

Elana: That sounds complicated to be able to hold space for all of those stories. I mean you have someone in your group who is a mother in Gaza experiencing all the things they are experiencing there, and in the same space there's mothers of soldiers. I mean, I know from my experience also, those are really hard, hard exchanges. You know, I spent a couple of years running a Jewish-Israeli-Palestinian women's group. And each month, we would meet once a month, and each month we would hear narratives from both sides. And I remember once, one of the Palestinian women said that if her family knew that she was sitting in a room with mothers of Israeli soldiers, they would disown her. That she couldn't tell them that. Because that was just. So how is that --

And you two also come from different places. So how did you meet?

Nadia: I think in continuation of what Anat Said, she said that we met for the first time I started learning NVC with Anat after we met in Arabic-Jewish circles. We are both of us peace and social activists, before we started learning NVC. I remember when the war started in August 2014 with Gaza, I just came back from abroad, and inside Israel there was also a lot of violence between Arabs and Jews. And this time I was really scared, terrified, I'm living in Nazareth Elite,  it's a mixed city and I was afraid that my daughter would go to the street, from both sides. Jewish youth burned Arab restaurants, Arabs attack Jews, and it was really a big mess in the city at this time. And I just called Anat and we started to cry together. Also she was worried about her children. We have children more or less the same age. And she said, "Look, I want to invite you to learn with me." And then we started about six meetings that we did together, and then soon after we had ITs -- International NVC Trainings -- in Beit Jalla. I went for three days and stayed for 14 days. And from there started our journey. We formed non-violent communication practice group in lower Galilee. It started in her home. In Sorona and Beit Keshet and the whole area. It's close to where I live. And from there our journey with NVC, bringing NVC to the local community, it started from there till today. This is what we did. We entered the houses. We made home projects that every time we presented in another village. This was really, really -- and we did the film. It was a film about our journey with this group and also our private journey. And today this film is translated into at least 3 or 4 languages.

Eva: Wow -- what's the name of the film?

Nadia: Women Daring Peace. You can find it on Youtube. And now it will be presented this July in NVC festival in Madrid.

Elana: So what's the secret to your success then? Clearly you've had a lot of successes and it's not easy.

You face a lot of challenges. Can you speak to that?About what the challenges are and how you deal with them?

Nadia: I will talk about my motivation. Or you want to talk, Anat?

Anat: About our success. [everyone talking] Before we started I was a peace activist, also Nadia, before we started working together. I have been in many kinds of groups and I saw that many times the group starts with a lot of passion and people wanting to be together, and after a while people left. And the groups initiated by Jews, I saw that many times all the Arabs left and only the Jews are left.

SoI had a thought that we must see why it is happening. And to understand how to do it differently. So when we Nadia and me started to work, we really wanted to work equally, like every one of us, she is a different person, but we know that every one of us brings another ability to our team. But we understood that the team has to work together, not that one leads, only one group, like only Jews lead or only Arabs lead. It will not work.

So I really believe in that, that it brings to success. Like you two -- you are Jewish and Arab. It's very important to everything that, if we want to work with different kinds of people with different narratives.

Me and Nadia, we had a lot of talks, many many hours to understand each other's cultures and inside the group, to understand what is really happening. I can see things on the Jewish side and Nadia can see things on the Arab side, and we learned a lot during these years with NVC. And now we really see many things. Sometimes we see groups trying to work together and I can see. I want to teach them what not to  and what to do. Because we had a lot of lessons in this area. I think of the differences in culture, it might be a beautiful thing to mix cultures, or it might be an awful thing. Because our practice is in communication, we have a kind of method how to learn what is needed.

Elana: What are some elements of your method? What are some of the tactics that guide you?

Nadia: I would like to add on this topic, I think one of the tools that can bring success in this program is to create spaces that include everyone, one near the other, and not one instead of the other. Because this is the normal life that we are living here in this country, that it's either me or you. That there's only space for one side. And what we are creating through our work is that there is space for everyone – with my language, with my identity, with my narrative. And i can bring difficult topics to the space, and I will be, people will come. It's not either you or me, it's me AND you together. And I think this is the secret.

Eva: I think this is the secret. And, I would add the fact that you're not coming with a very strong identity Israeli and Palestinian.

Because what I'm hearing is also common ground regardless of being Palestinian or Israeli the common ground is the environment, the common ground is the NVC,  the common ground is the therapies profile

And I think what, my organization is Peace Activation, and the peace activation foundation is that we need to activate the peace inside so that we can activate the peace outside.

And that the inner work necessary for us to do on, before even interacting with the other, is the foundational skills.

And I think the other part is also the fact that you accept the principle of psychology that we are all radically different.

And most of us operate on sameness. And I think that principle is also an important principle for successful initiatives that are led by  two  leaders -- whether Palestinian/Israeli or  Burundi/Tutsi.

From my experiences in conflict zones, I saw that those that were successful were those that have from both sides but not being attached to being on one side or another.

So you're creating a field, which is also what peace activation is doing, a field of Rumi, between right doing and wrongdoing, there is a field I'll meet you there. And these field is inclusive, participatory, and welcoming.

And that's the safety. That based on your experience as healers, and as people who have worked on themselves, because you cannot be a healer without having done the work, the inner work, that's what you bring. Or at least that's what I'm understanding from your presentation.

Anat: Yes and another thing that our tool the NVC is based on needs. Needs means the common things between people. Like, all of us need love.

All of us need friendship. All of us need food. And we try to find the common things between all the people.

Because as we see, people are fighting about the strategy. How to find a way to get their needs. But if we go with our dialogue to the basic, WHY they fight, WHAT they need, so they say things that the other side can hear.

For example, "We need honor". "We need food". "We need safety". And then the other side, what do you need? They need the same. They need safety.  They need honor. Maybe their way to get it is different. And they are fighting about how they will get it. So with the NVC tool we can also make another common ground between people.

For example, Nadia and me did an event, a zoom course that we talked about the two narratives of the last century. There is a beautiful book called, "To Learn about The Other Narrative", written by a historian, Palestinian historian and Jewish Israeli writer, historians. And we read this book chapter by chapter and talked about the differences of the narratives. And the women that were in this group were from the Occupied Territories and from Israel. Jewish and Arab.

And with the tool of the NVC, we can talk about the different really two different stories, completely different stories about the last century. But with this tool we can talk about the needs of the people in this historical time and that builds the narrative that brings the war.

Eva: I think it's, just  for the sake of the listener, the NVC framework is like talking about observation rather than judgment. And then going to expression of feelings and then needs and then making a request. And I think the structured approach of this type of communication doesn't allow people to get out of getting into emotional trauma triangle and allow them to be, okay, this is what I observe. This is how I feel about it. These are my needs.

And that's what I would like to ask. And I think what you mention about the what and the why is some of the foundational skills in conflict resolution field, which is moving from "what do you want" as a position to "why do you want what you want". And that's where you tackle the safety, the peace, the freedom, And we see that as human beings, regardless of where we're coming from, we all need and want the same thing

Elana: I'm curious, have you see what you would call moments of change? Have you seen, people come and there's some kind of switch? Have you seen that?

Nadia: I can give you an example from something lately I experienced in one of our zoom sessions. There is a session that I do with Roberta Wall. And at the end of the program, there was an Israeli Jewish woman who said that she feels horrible, and in the breakout room nobody heard her, and she felt not heard. And she started to share in the last minute. She opened a topic in the last minute and she started to share. And this also can take us to change, and this can also take us to the challenge for me as a facilitator. And the change for her as a participant.

And she started to say that Israelis are not fighting the Palestinians. Israelis are fighting Hamas. Israel is not killing Palestinians, Israel is killing Hamas. And we are mothers, we are Israeli mothers, and we also want safety. And she started to express all her -- and in this moment, as a, if I connect with my identity as a Palestinian, and an Israeli at the same time, this was a moment that was very hard for me to hear her, to connect with her. And then as a skilled person, in this moment I just note what is arising in me.And in this moment how I respond as a triggered person, or as a professional facilitator.

And do I respond from my identity and how it's challenging for me to hear what she says, or from a professional place to hear how much this woman needs to be heard. How much this woman, it's very important to be seen for her.

Elana: That's such hard work.

Nadia: Yes

Eva: But it's the work that allows her to do that.

Nadia: Yes

And I succeed as a human, being, I succeed to connect with her when she said, "We are the Israeli women mothers, also we are worried and terrified and we are waiting to receive, we are waiting for our children to come back safely." And this is the moment that I succeed to connect with her as a mother, as a woman. And not as Israeli, and not as a Palestinian. I just connected with a mother, as a human being, who is worried for her children.

Elana: Wow. That's the whole work. That's the whole thing.

Nadia: Yes. And I saw how she was suddenly calm. Her body language was just more calm. That someone is hearing her.

Eva: Especially a Palestinian hearing her. We discussed this even just preparing for this podcast, how important it is just to hear each other. And that's how we can work together. Because we cannot drop our identity. At the same time our identity can be the foundation for the healing to take place. Because you hearing her as a Palestinian Nadia, would have been different than you hearing her as a Jewish Israeli Anat.

And so think what you're talking about is really the authenticity of your approach in you sitting with your trigger and still remaining a professional trainer facilitator. And that's really where the healing happens because of the inner work that you've done before. And all of us. For me that's what I define as peace activation.

Anat: In NVC we have a slogan: "Connect before you correct".

Elana:That's a good one.

Eva: Beautiful.

Anat: That's the possibility of us making the change. Not to come only from our idea and to fight from our narratives and trauma, but first to connect. And also to connect inside if we are triggered. Like what Nadia did.

Like you asked us before what leads us to success. I think that we can add that the inner work like Nadia said now. Our inner work as a team. We are holding the space in the zoom call for nine months in the war and going through hard times. And we also, in the team, we were very hard times. But in our meetings of the team we are doing empathy to each other. So we are really trying to walk our talk.

Also me and Nadia, these ten years, we passed through not easy times in the political level and on the personal level and working together. But we are trying every time to sit together and to connect before we correct. To use all these tools. And I think if you are really doing the inner work and modeling, you can give inspiration to people.

Elana: Right

Anat: And I think if people correct -- like Dr. Marshall Rosenberg said -- if people really connect, all struggles can be resolved in 40 minutes. After that, each side can really understand and see and give empathy to the other side. It may takes days or weeks until they come to this point. But then, they can have a lot of ideas how to find solutions.

Elana: I think that's so powerful what you said about "connect before you correct". I feel like I personally was trained to be a corrector. In my Jewish education, we were taught to correct the narrative. To make sure that, you know, I was trained to be a soldier of debate. To win the debate. Bibi, you know, Bibi Netanyahu, I think he is the grand debater, and that's how I was socialized to do that, you know. To always fix the narrative, correct the text. And what that does, what that practice does, is it completely blocks human connection. And I've lived that. I feel like I really, my work has been to come out of that and to retrain myself in all of those things.

Nadia: In continuation of what Anat said, there is also another phrase of Marshall that says that the conflict is in the levels of the strategies, and not in the level of the needs. Since the needs are shared values, human values,  and it's universal values. The conflict can not be in the level need. It is just in the strategy need. How we can fulfill our needs.

Eva: I also love, Marshall wrote, "Words can be windows or prisons."

Nadia: Windows or walls.

Eva: Windows or walls, absolutely.

Nadia: I use that a lot

Elana: So before we wrap up, I would love to hear your thoughts about today, how you feel about the situation we're in now.

Do you have insights or vision about where to from here?

Eva: As women and mothers, I'd like to add. Because it's really what you shared in the beginning. It's actually the feminine qualities that you're bringing to this. And by saying "feminine"  I actually invite also men that have these feminine qualities to join us. So I'd really like what we're asking with this podcast of Women Ending War is, what would be your vision, how can we end it?

Elana: Little things. [laughter]

Anat: I really wish that we could teach more, do more, bring our knowledge to the political world. I'm involved now in a new political party called Kol Ezracheha (All its Citizens). And I wish to bring -- it is managing by equal Arab and Jewish in everything they are doing. And I really believe that we can invite them to bring the change.

I really wish to teach more, that we can teach more. We work with teachers. I hope we can do a lot to separate this knowledge and to change a little bit society the way we are talking -- on the street, in the political world, everything. And we need it because if we have violence in the way we are talking, there will be violence in the end in the behavior in the streets, in the army.

Eva: Softness. You're going for more softness.

Anat: To bring change to the way that we connect. I believe it might bring a change in the --

Nadia: In addition to what Anat said, and in addition to what I do, to what we do together, I also bring non-violent communication to pupils, to teachers, to a lot of communities, women and men. I am imagining that we have an education system that a non-violent communication class is part of the basic program.

Eva: Yeah.

Elana: Wow.

Eva: We hold that vision.

Nadia: Because I say it also from, as a mother. As a mother, as a Palestinian, as an Israeli.

That I went to an Arabic school, and my daughter went to Jewish school.

And I see the differences and I see the values that our children learn in the school.

And I think we have to start from there.

Eva: Yeah

Nadia: And when our children grow up different and similar at the same time, okay we are different but from these differences are, we can also come together. And we grow up with this as a norm, I think. I think all our attitudes and the future of this region, I can see different.

Elana: I would also love to see schools in general be mixed. There is so much segregation in Israel. Also cities. There are only seven mixed cities in Israel, out of 250

Eva: And even in these mixed cities they're not mixed. They are together but separate.

Elana: Exactly, like Yaffo is a perfect example of that..

Nadia: My vision is to see that all of them are learning together, Arabs and Jews, and NVC, all at the same time.

Elana: And also by the way Hebrew and Arabic in schools.

Nadia: Yeah, all together.

Elana: We should all be speaking all these languages as native languages.

Nadia: To learn the language of each other. One of the basic skills to connect.

Elana: And also, like, holidays. You know, we should all be wishing each other happy holidays and understanding what other people are going through. Why not? Why are we not doing that? There is so much othering, so much segregation.

Eva: It is a reflection of the fragmentation and separation of society.

There is so much healing when speaking the other's language. Like you both mentioned Arabic, Hebrew, and English. And holding the spaces in these three different languages. Beyond it being an emotional language, I've witnessed a lot of healing in me as a Palestinian citizen of Israel speaking Arabic and Hebrew and other languages. That when I would speak Hebrew to a Jewish Israeli person coming to my meetings, there would be an immediate relaxation in the body, like a somatic experience and her saying, "Wow you speak Hebrew and you don't mind speaking this language". And I found that it's very interesting in the other way also.

Like I was just in this training where Israeli Jews were speaking Arabic to Palestinians and that was so much appreciated. And so I think there's a lot of healing not only in the technique of NVC but actually the language itself, speaking Arabic Hebrew etc.

So you're doing, you're both doing a lot of combined holistic approach which I really really appreciate and want to acknowledge.

Anat: I can tell about another thing that we are doing now. We have now a group, a multicultured group in Nazareth, Nof Hagalil, that is part of big project of "Me'ever Lamilim", Beyond Words. It is a dream of making an army of healers. We are part of it. And we really wish to I think continue and teach teachers how to help, that it really separates a lot of people.

Elana: NVC would absolutely transform the school experience. I mean, school experiences are so confrontational, and competitive and angry. I mean, there is so much in schools that are the exact opposite of NVC. I mean, it would be, it's a beautiful dream. I think it's really, really wonderful and really on point.

Nadia: I think there is a very important -- sometimes people, "Oh, how are you going to, how are you doing that?" And I think the fact that most of us, we came from different backgrounds, and traumatic backgrounds, because both of us, our family, the trauma of our family are related to the history of this country. I think the fact that we are coming from this place also to hear and to understand deeply the tragedy and the story, of each other's family, I think this supports us also to connect more.

Elana: So nice

Eva: Absolutely

Anat: I think we take people that might see this program from abroad, from the United States or other places, they sometimes don't know that inside Israel this is our, we live a common life, Jews and Arabs. It might seem from television that all of us are fighting. No, we are in the Galilee where both of us live, we are 50% Arabic and 50% Jewish. And we live together. So it's really more complicated

Eva: I would say complex.

Anat: Complex. Mixed good and bad.

And I will finish with a story There was an Indian that said to his grandchild, "There are two wolves that are fighting."

So the grandchild asked, "Who is winning?"

He said, "The one that you feed."

Eva: Exactly.

Anat: So if you feed the good things inside, I believe that we might have a good future, a better future.

Elana: Beautiful.

Eva: Beautiful. Hopeful note.

Elana: Thank you

Nadia: I just want to finish with the sentence that what we we, what both of us are doing, and also the rest of the team together, I think it's planting seed of hope.

Eva: Absolutely

Elana: And you're modeling it. You two are modeling it.

Nadia: And I would invite you and everyone hearing us to take this seed and to plant it wherever it is needed. And to support us to continue planting these seeds.

Anat: And to enjoy our zoom.

Elana: Send us a link. Give us the link and we'll share.

Eva: I've been to your zoom, yeah, several times and I really enjoyed it.

I also hold, Peace Activation holds once a week a zoom for everybody. And we're not specifically targeting Palestinians and Israelis.  because we consider that everybody has an opinion and feelings and triggers around the conflict. And so we hold a lot of the spaces in English but also in silence. And I've learned that silence sometimes to hold silence with the whole group for half an hour and just feel so relaxing and coming beyond words realizing that at some point there's no more words to express how we feel and being able to share in silence is again very, very healing.

Elana: Thank you so so much for being here today. Please share the links. And good look in everything

Nadia: Thank you very much for bringing our voice out.

Eva: Absolutely. Thank you so much.

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